5 Most Common London System Mistakes • page 1/1 • Community Blog Discussions • lichess.org

Comments on https://lichess.org/@/lizard1/blog/5-most-common-london-system-mistakes/iHh5OWWf

Why would the London be weak against a King's Indian setup.
Here is how Lasker played it as black in reverse against the Reti.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1102115

Why would the London be weak against a King's Indian setup. Here is how Lasker played it as black in reverse against the Reti. https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1102115

IM Lizard1

@tpr
Just to clarify, I'm absolutely not saying that playing a London setup against the KID is bad or somehow unplayable. If it's been serving you well, you enjoy the resulting positions, or you simply want one universal setup that you can play against almost everything, then by all means stick with it.

My point is specifically from the perspective of White trying to fight for an objective opening advantage. From that perspective, I don't think the London against a KID setup is something I can really recommend, because White's setup just doesn't seem challenging enough to me.

I touched on this briefly in the post as well. One reason the London makes a lot of sense against ...d5 setups (at least intuitively) is that the bishop on f4 does something very concrete: it gives White excellent control over the important e5-square. Against a KID setup, that isn't really the case. More generally, Black's basic KID philosophy is to concede space in the centre initially and then attack it later, so I don't see much reason for White not to take advantage of that and claim more of the centre with moves such as c4. If White voluntarily chooses a more restrained London setup instead, I think there should in the first place be a compelling reason to do that, and in quite a few of these positions it's not even entirely clear what the bishop on f4 is accomplishing against KID.

As for the Lasker game, I don't think White chose the most challenging way of confronting that London-type setup. I would consider ideas involving d3, c4, cxd5, Nc3 and an e4 break at the right moment (sometimes combined with Qb3 ideas depending on the position) to be a much more direct and annoying way of challenging Black's setup. With colors reversed, Black can often use similar ideas against the London. In the game you linked, White instead went for a much calmer positional approach which included fianchettoing the queenside bishop, which led to a manoeuvring game but didn't really put Black's setup under that much pressure.

This is also one reason that, if you do want to play the London, I personally like 2.Nf3 as a move order. It retains more flexibility than immediately committing to 2.Bf4. If Black then shows their hand with ...g6 and heads for a KID setup, you haven't committed the bishop to f4 yet and can switch to something with c4 instead.

I'll probably post some more material in the near future about the setups I think are more challenging for Black against the KID. But again, I'm definitely not claiming that the London is bad or unplayable against it. My point is simply that if fighting for an objective opening advantage with White is important to you, I think there are more ambitious and theoretically challenging ways to play.

@tpr Just to clarify, I'm absolutely not saying that playing a London setup against the KID is bad or somehow unplayable. If it's been serving you well, you enjoy the resulting positions, or you simply want one universal setup that you can play against almost everything, then by all means stick with it. My point is specifically from the perspective of White trying to fight for an objective opening advantage. From that perspective, I don't think the London against a KID setup is something I can really recommend, because White's setup just doesn't seem challenging enough to me. I touched on this briefly in the post as well. One reason the London makes a lot of sense against ...d5 setups (at least intuitively) is that the bishop on f4 does something very concrete: it gives White excellent control over the important e5-square. Against a KID setup, that isn't really the case. More generally, Black's basic KID philosophy is to concede space in the centre initially and then attack it later, so I don't see much reason for White not to take advantage of that and claim more of the centre with moves such as c4. If White voluntarily chooses a more restrained London setup instead, I think there should in the first place be a compelling reason to do that, and in quite a few of these positions it's not even entirely clear what the bishop on f4 is accomplishing against KID. As for the Lasker game, I don't think White chose the most challenging way of confronting that London-type setup. I would consider ideas involving d3, c4, cxd5, Nc3 and an e4 break at the right moment (sometimes combined with Qb3 ideas depending on the position) to be a much more direct and annoying way of challenging Black's setup. With colors reversed, Black can often use similar ideas against the London. In the game you linked, White instead went for a much calmer positional approach which included fianchettoing the queenside bishop, which led to a manoeuvring game but didn't really put Black's setup under that much pressure. This is also one reason that, if you do want to play the London, I personally like 2.Nf3 as a move order. It retains more flexibility than immediately committing to 2.Bf4. If Black then shows their hand with ...g6 and heads for a KID setup, you haven't committed the bishop to f4 yet and can switch to something with c4 instead. I'll probably post some more material in the near future about the setups I think are more challenging for Black against the KID. But again, I'm definitely not claiming that the London is bad or unplayable against it. My point is simply that if fighting for an objective opening advantage with White is important to you, I think there are more ambitious and theoretically challenging ways to play.

Jennyheartsweet

Great article, although I just read it to see how I could beat this annoying opening! Now to try 2...h5? in some blitz games and see how many people fall for the cheap trap. But in a serious game, I will just stick with my usual plans.

Jennyheartsweet

Ok I learned something the hard way. If you try 2...h5? 3.e3? e5! 4. Bxe5 f6 and white tries 5. Bd3, don’t take the B right away! 5...Nge7 is best.