How Queens Die: Analysing a 6 Million Puzzle Database

Comments on https://lichess.org/@/heroku/blog/how-queens-die-analysing-a-6-million-puzzle-database/jgN7WEdl

6767... Hmmmmmmmmmm
SIX SEVEN!!!!

6767... Hmmmmmmmmmm SIX SEVEN!!!!

Capturing a hanging queen with your own queen can not be the best move 100% of the time. There are full queen sacrifices which involve checkmate threats and would be an immediate blunder to capture the hanging queen. Were those instances not covered in the database?

heroku

@NigerianMachine said ^

Capturing a hanging queen with your own queen can not be the best move 100% of the time. There are full queen sacrifices which involve checkmate threats and would be an immediate blunder to capture the hanging queen. Were those instances not covered in the database?

Consider the fact that If a puzzle starts with a hanging queen that you can capture, then it is the best move. But if you encounter a hanging queen in the middle of the puzzle, then those are not accounted for and it may not be the best move to capture them. I also gave a few examples of that, where the queen is hanging but rook checks the king that is usually a mate.

@NigerianMachine said [^](/forum/redirect/post/KDE2axsp) > Capturing a hanging queen with your own queen can not be the best move 100% of the time. There are full queen sacrifices which involve checkmate threats and would be an immediate blunder to capture the hanging queen. Were those instances not covered in the database? Consider the fact that If a puzzle starts with a hanging queen that you can capture, then it is the best move. But if you encounter a hanging queen in the middle of the puzzle, then those are not accounted for and it may not be the best move to capture them. I also gave a few examples of that, where the queen is hanging but rook checks the king that is usually a mate.

TheGOAT1019

@Kylechen123456 said ^

6767... Hmmmmmmmmmm
SIX SEVEN!!!!

Imagine lol

@Kylechen123456 said [^](/forum/redirect/post/Eg5R9Q1d) > 6767... Hmmmmmmmmmm > SIX SEVEN!!!! Imagine lol

TheGOAT1019

@heroku said ^

Capturing a hanging queen with your own queen can not be the best move 100% of the time. There are full queen sacrifices which involve checkmate threats and would be an immediate blunder to capture the hanging queen. Were those instances not covered in the database?

Consider the fact that If a puzzle starts with a hanging queen that you can capture, then it is the best move. But if you encounter a hanging queen in the middle of the puzzle, then those are not accounted for and it may not be the best move to capture them. I also gave a few examples of that, where the queen is hanging but rook checks the king that is usually a mate.

That’s not true always

@heroku said [^](/forum/redirect/post/qXATOpbL) > > Capturing a hanging queen with your own queen can not be the best move 100% of the time. There are full queen sacrifices which involve checkmate threats and would be an immediate blunder to capture the hanging queen. Were those instances not covered in the database? > > Consider the fact that If a puzzle starts with a hanging queen that you can capture, then it is the best move. But if you encounter a hanging queen in the middle of the puzzle, then those are not accounted for and it may not be the best move to capture them. I also gave a few examples of that, where the queen is hanging but rook checks the king that is usually a mate. That’s not true always

heroku

We are happy to hear your counter examples, so we can fix our code.

olivia-rodrigo

Something I've always wanted to see is a queen sacrifice for a positional advantage with minor pieces, like in The Game of the Century and Rashid Nezhmetdinov vs. Oleg Chernikov (1962). Is there a way to search for positions like those using your algorithms on Lichess games, where sacrificing the queen in this manner was possible? Most importantly, were any of those positions ever offered as puzzles?

Something I've always wanted to see is a queen sacrifice for a positional advantage with minor pieces, like in *The Game of the Century* and Rashid Nezhmetdinov vs. Oleg Chernikov (1962). Is there a way to search for positions like those using your algorithms on Lichess games, where sacrificing the queen in this manner was possible? Most importantly, were any of those positions ever offered as puzzles?

heroku

@Olivia-Rodrigo said ^

Something I've always wanted to see is a queen sacrifice for a positional advantage with minor pieces, like in The Game of the Century and Rashid Nezhmetdinov vs. Oleg Chernikov (1962). Is there a way to search for positions like those using your algorithms on Lichess games, where sacrificing the queen in this manner was possible? Most importantly, were any of those positions ever offered as puzzles?

Unfortunately the positional aspects are too abstract to be expressed precisely, at least not yet anyway.

But I ran a script where you actually sacrifice your queen to a defended Knight. Now usually these sacrifices are temporary or leads to mate anyway, not positional per say, but this is as close as I could get to your request for now. I've added the puzzles on the showcase website here https://eguneys.github.io/gofchess-puzzler-27/#/. Just select the last style with the label "Style: Sacrifice The Queen (Exception)"

But I am working on a new aspect, that could prove to be more flexible and a better approach. I will share my results once it's ready.

I'll link some examples here as well:

For reference here's the script that produced it:

queen_t *Captures bishop_o *becomes queen2
knight *Captures queen2 *becomes opponent3

So this doesn't fully describe a tactic, but if it matches to the first moves of a solution of the puzzle, it means a queen sacrificed itself to a Knight.

@Olivia-Rodrigo said [^](/forum/redirect/post/V77rS7E9) > Something I've always wanted to see is a queen sacrifice for a positional advantage with minor pieces, like in *The Game of the Century* and Rashid Nezhmetdinov vs. Oleg Chernikov (1962). Is there a way to search for positions like those using your algorithms on Lichess games, where sacrificing the queen in this manner was possible? Most importantly, were any of those positions ever offered as puzzles? Unfortunately the positional aspects are too abstract to be expressed precisely, at least not yet anyway. But I ran a script where you actually sacrifice your queen to a defended Knight. Now usually these sacrifices are temporary or leads to mate anyway, not positional per say, but this is as close as I could get to your request for now. I've added the puzzles on the showcase website here https://eguneys.github.io/gofchess-puzzler-27/#/. Just select the last style with the label "Style: Sacrifice The Queen (Exception)" But I am working on a new aspect, that could prove to be more flexible and a better approach. I will share my results once it's ready. I'll link some examples here as well: - https://lichess.org/training/awbaZ - https://lichess.org/training/cQukH - https://lichess.org/training/9Nkc6 - https://lichess.org/training/ohBG5 For reference here's the script that produced it: ``` queen_t *Captures bishop_o *becomes queen2 knight *Captures queen2 *becomes opponent3 ``` So this doesn't fully describe a tactic, but if it matches to the first moves of a solution of the puzzle, it means a queen sacrificed itself to a Knight.

TYMEKB76

very good blog tks for all

very good blog tks for all ![image.png](https://image.lichess1.org/display?op=noop&path=-PQSHZ6C9eCG.png&sig=85cd1e1fc0d579bafb3e210bb9948ca251d81c88)